10 months ago
Matt Hancock told 1 of nan country's apical medics 'not to patronise' him successful nan weeks starring up to nan pandemic.
Professor Yvonne Doyle, erstwhile aesculapian head of nan now-defunct Public Health England (PHE), was besides told to region herself from nan then-Health Secretary, contempt nan processing crisis.
It came aft she gave an interview, successful which she stated location 'could good be' group pinch Covid successful nan UK anterior to nan first cases of nan microorganism being confirmed.
In a witnesser connection to nan UK Covid Inquiry, Professor Doyle said her 'main concern' successful early 2020 was that her proposal 'was not ever welcome'.
She said 'there was a distance' betwixt herself and ministers, peculiarly Mr Hancock, astatine nan extremity of January and for 'quite a bit' of February.
Professor Yvonne Doyle, erstwhile aesculapian head of nan now-defunct Public Health England, was besides told to region herself from nan then-Health Secretary, contempt nan processing crisis
In a witnesser connection to nan UK Covid Inquiry, Professor Doyle said her 'main concern' successful early 2020 was that her proposal 'was not ever welcome'. She said 'there was a distance' betwixt herself and ministers, peculiarly Mr Hancock, astatine nan extremity of January and for 'quite a bit' of February
Professor Doyle told nan inquiry: 'It followed a media question and reply I had done it astatine nan extremity of January wherever I said consecutive that location could good beryllium cases successful nan state – which, of course, location were 10 days later – and that we were unclear about, but were prepared to consider, that asymptomatic infection could occur.
'This does not spell down well, I'm afraid. It whitethorn good person been my position aliases nan measurement I did that interview, but I felt it was nan truth. I was telling nan truth.
'The measurement that was handled was that I was advised not to do immoderate further media and that nan Secretary of State would request to clear each media, which of people we agreed to.
'But besides that it was astir apt champion if I conscionable kept a region for a while until things settee down, which I did.'
Professor Doyle told nan enquiry that it was colleagues successful nan civilian work who gave her this proposal and told her it 'would beryllium nan champion measurement to calm things down'.
She besides told nan enquiry she met Mr Hancock and he 'made his displeasure clear', asking her 'not to patronise him'.
She said she apologised and told him 'I really americium sorry if you deliberation nan subject fto you down'.
Professor Doyle was aesculapian head and head of wellness protection astatine PHE and remained successful station until it was dissolved successful October 2021.
From February to July 2020, she was nan elder responsible serviceman for nan input of nan organisation to nan pandemic response.
She told nan enquiry nan ethos of PHE was 'to support ministers'.
'I did consciousness I had fto him down successful immoderate way,' she added. 'But I still felt I had spoken nan truth.'
Professor Doyle said she 'didn't make immoderate fuss' astir nan incident and 'did eventually' do much media interviews and appeared astatine Downing Street briefings.
Inquiry counsel Andrew O'Connor highlighted that it was a clip erstwhile Professor Doyle would person expected to person rather predominant interaction pinch nan wellness secretary, fixed nan processing pandemic.
She said she had had 'very predominant interaction up to 2020'.
Professor Doyle said 'good colleagues' and deputies stepped successful to span nan connection gap.
She added: 'I really felt nan nationalist and organization should not suffer successful immoderate measurement because of this and, therefore, we recovered ways to proceed nan work.'
It comes aft nan enquiry heard that Mr Hancock wanted to determine 'who should unrecorded and who should die' if nan NHS became overwhelmed during nan pandemic.
Simon Stevens, ex-chief executive of nan wellness service, said nan comments were made during a February 2020 crunch meeting, wherever it was group retired that nan UK could spot 840,000 deaths successful nan first activity nether a reasonable worst-case scenario.
In his written submission to nan inquiry, Lord Stevens shared specifications astir a readying workout — called cognition Nimbus — connected February 12, 2020.
In a witnesser statement, Lord Simon Stevens, nan erstwhile main executive officer, said nan comments were made during a February 2020 readying meeting
Led by nan Cabinet Office, nan intent was to group retired really nan Government would respond to a 'reasonable worst lawsuit scenario' successful which location are 1.6million caller cases per week — of which 1.25 per cent are fatal — and 860,000 deaths are forecast successful nan coming months.
Inquiry counsel Andrew O'Connor said nan workout 'provoked a discussion' astir who should beryllium responsible for making decisions astir prioritising and allocating stretched NHS resources successful this situation.
In a witnesser connection to nan inquiry, Lord Stevens wrote: 'My consciousness astatine nan clip was that it [the readying exercise] helpfully sensitised a wider scope of Government departments [beyond nan wellness sector] to nan type of pressures nan UK mightiness experience.
'It did consequence in — to my mind astatine least — an unresolved but basal ethical statement astir a script successful which a rising number of Covid patients overwhelmed nan expertise of hospitals to look aft them and different non-Covid patients.
'The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care took nan position that successful this business he — alternatively than, opportunity nan aesculapian occupation aliases nan public — should yet determine who should unrecorded and who should die.
'Fortunately this horrible dilemma ne'er crystalised.'
Mr O'Connor noted that Chancellor Jeremy Hunt, a erstwhile Health Secretary, 'took a different view' during Exercise Cygnus — a 2016 Government simulation of a flu outbreak.
Mr Hunt told nan Covid enquiry successful June that, astatine that clip of nan exercise, location was a protocol requiring nan Health Secretary to 'flick a switch' and determine who should beryllium cared for.
But he said ministers should not beryllium asked to 'play God' and deprive group of a infirmary bed, truthful ordered that nan argumentation beryllium changed, concluding that it was 'inappropriate' for this determination to beryllium taken 'away from nan beforehand line'.
Mr O'Connor told Lord Stevens that Mr Hancock 'took a very different view' and asked whether his stance was 'an due statement to take' aliases 'desirable'.
In response, Lord Stevens told nan inquiry: 'I thought it would beryllium highly undesirable isolated from successful nan astir utmost circumstances.'
He said nan Department of Health created an ethical and civilized advisory sheet to look into really to limit attraction 'in a measurement that would beryllium fairest and beryllium nan astir defensible nether this horrible situation'.
Lord Stevens added: 'I surely wanted to discourage nan thought that an individual Secretary of State, different than successful nan astir exceptional circumstances, should beryllium deciding really attraction will beryllium provided.
'I felt that we are good served by nan aesculapian occupation successful consultation pinch patients, to nan top grade imaginable making those benignant of decisions.'
Asked whether this was an illustration of cognition Nimbus 'doing its job' by highlighting issues while location was still clip to deliberation astir really to woody pinch it, Lord Stevens said: 'I really don't deliberation this was a mobility that was resolved.'
Covid compared to chickenpox arsenic precocious arsenic March 2020, Covid enquiry hears
Government officials wanted Brits to get Covid and create immunity 'like chickenpox' arsenic precocious arsenic March 2020, nan UK's Covid enquiry herd today.
Sir Christopher Wormald, imperishable caput astatine nan Department of Health, told erstwhile furniture caput Lord Sedwill that he was 'exactly right' to judge that group successful nan UK should go infected to build up herd immunity — erstwhile capable group are immune to a microorganism that it is incapable to spread.
In a connection connected March 12, 2020, shared pinch nan inquiry, Lord Sedwill said: 'I don't deliberation PM & Co person internalised yet nan favoritism betwixt minimising mortality and not trying to extremity astir group getting it.
'Indeed presumably for illustration chickenpox we want group to get it and create herd immunity earlier nan adjacent wave.
'We conscionable want them not to get it each astatine erstwhile and preferably erstwhile it's pass (sic) and barren etc.'
Sir Christopher responded: 'Exactly right. We make nan constituent each meeting, they don't rather get it.'
The speech came a matter of days earlier nan Government moved to present a lockdown, amid fears astir nan NHS being overwhelmed by nan virus.
Matt Hancock would beryllium 'surprised' astatine really wide nan position was that nan then-health caput told 'untruths' successful nan pandemic, a apical civilian servant told nan Covid Inquiry. Sir Christopher Wormald, imperishable caput astatine nan Department of Health, said: 'I fishy he will beryllium amazed by really wide it was'
It besides came connected nan aforesaid time that erstwhile apical advisor Dominic Cummings had complained successful a WhatsApp connection that Lord Sedwill had been 'babbling astir chickenpox', adding 'god f***ing thief us'.
Giving grounds to nan enquiry earlier this week, Mr Cummings claimed that Lord Sedwill had told Boris Johnson: 'PM, you should spell connected TV and should explicate that this is for illustration nan aged days pinch chickenpox and group are going to person chickenpox parties. And nan sooner a batch of group get this and get it complete pinch nan amended benignant of thing.'
In a station connected X, formerly Twitter, Mr Cummings responded to nan grounds aired astatine nan enquiry connected Thursday.
He said: 'The logic nan Cabinet Secretary suggested to nan PM connected 12/3 to show nan state to clasp chickenpox parties – and me/Ben Warner said "you must extremity saying this" – is nan Permanent Secretary astatine DHSC, *in complaint of 'the plan'*, was telling him this was nan f***ing plan!!!
'Holy s**t this is genuinely atrocious and explains truthful much.'
Sir Christopher, who was pressed by lead enquiry counsel Hugo Keith KC to explicate nan exchange, said that it was a reference to herd immunity but based on it was 'reflecting nan authorities of nan technological proposal astatine that point'.
He said he had been 'very, very loose successful my reply' and that he had astatine nan clip been pursuing nan Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies advice.
It comes after Sir Christopher told nan enquiry that Matt Hancock would beryllium 'surprised' at really wide nan position was that he told 'untruths' Inquiry.
Sir Christopher said: 'I fishy he will beryllium amazed by really wide it was.
'He was very good alert Mr [Dominic] Cummings held those views of him and expressed them.
'I deliberation he astir apt knew nan Cabinet Secretary occasionally made nan aforesaid point,' he added.
But Sir Christopher said Mr Hancock would apt beryllium amazed that erstwhile civilian servant Helen MacNamara, who gave grounds to nan enquiry connected Wednesday, held akin views.
Messages shown to nan enquiry this week show that Mr Cummings called Mr Hancock a 'proven liar', while Ms MacNamara, erstwhile lawman furniture secretary, told nan enquiry this week that Mr Hancock insisted things were 'absolutely fine' erstwhile they were 'very, very acold from fine' during nan crisis.
Sir Christopher besides told nan enquiry that Mr Hancock believed it was important to beryllium 'optimistic and aspirational', adding he was not alert himself of nan grade of views astir nan then-health secretary's truth-telling.
'There were a batch of group who said that nan caput of authorities was over-optimistic astir what would hap and over-promised connected what could beryllium delivered,' Sir Christopher said.
'That was said really rather a lot. I deliberation it was a very mini number of group who said that he was really telling untruths.'
'He was ever clear that he was doing it for a affirmative reason. So mounting a very aspirational target, not needfully expecting to deed it, but to galvanise nan strategy to do more.'
'Whether that's a bully point to do aliases not, that is simply a matter of perception.'
Sir Christopher acknowledged that mistrust betwixt Number 10, nan Cabinet Office and nan Department of Health would person been damaging.
'The magnitude of clip and power that seemed to beryllium taken up very early successful nan pandemic connected nan blasted crippled - that power would intelligibly person been amended spent solving nan problems nan pandemic was bringing.'
Sir Christopher besides pushed backmost astatine grounds from former authorities main technological advisor Sir Patrick Vallance, who described nan Department of Health arsenic 'ungovernable' and an 'operational mess' successful his pandemic diaries.
Sir Christopher said he did not work together that it was chaotic, dysfunctional aliases ungovernable.
Discussing nan Government's consequence to nan Covid outbreak, Sir Christopher said nan Government was a 'week late' successful introducing non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) — restrictions specified arsenic masks and societal distancing — starring to nan first lockdown.
He besides said nan November lockdown was implemented excessively precocious and that was his position astatine nan time.
He said: 'With hindsight, we were astatine slightest a week precocious astatine each points of nan NPI decisions. I agreed pinch nan decisions astatine nan clip and timing.
'But, looking back, we should person done each things connected nan 12th, 16th, 23rd … astatine slightest a week earlier.'
He added: 'In March, our deficiency of knowledge and knowing astir nan microorganism and taking decisions successful sizeable uncertainty.
'That is not nan lawsuit for nan 2nd lockdown. By this constituent we person a batch of testing. We cognize a batch astir nan virus. We're not modelling, we fundamentally cognize really it goes up and down.'
However, in Sir Patrick's pandemic diaries, he said he sewage a 'ticking off' from Sir Christopher successful March 2020 aft dropping 'the bombshell of needing to move faster'.
Sir Christopher said he had 'no recollection' of this.
